Episode Summary

What if you could turn underutilized office space into a lucrative income stream? On this episode of Practice Freedom, Mark explores the innovative strategies Shannon Seeberan, a leader in healthcare real estate, has employed to revolutionize the industry.

Episode Note

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What if you could turn underutilized office space into a lucrative income stream?

On this episode of Practice Freedom, Mark explores the innovative strategies Shannon Seeberan, a leader in healthcare real estate, has employed to revolutionize the industry. Drawing parallels to Airbnb, we discuss how short-term rentals can provide additional revenue for healthcare practitioners without long-term commitments. Mark and Shannon also dive into the post-pandemic commercial real estate landscape and the game-changing opportunities it presents.

Next, Mark and Shannon tackle the topic of optimizing healthcare practice efficiency. We challenge the outdated “if you build it, they will come” mentality, focusing instead on proactive patient acquisition and finding a niche. By contrasting abundance-minded approaches with scarcity-minded ones, we reveal how innovative products can help reduce overhead costs and create passive income. Discover how shared space models cater to successful practitioners looking to optimize resources and those needing a strategic turnaround.

The final segment spotlights the aesthetic healthcare market, especially for injectors seeking flexibility and profitability. By leveraging shared spaces and cutting-edge software platforms, aesthetic professionals can connect with available resources, drastically reducing startup costs. We delve into how these models support growth and autonomy, making it easier for injectors to transition from traditional employment to more entrepreneurial ventures. Finally, we discuss effective networking, leadership, and sustainable business models that can maximize value and profitability in the healthcare industry.

In this episode, you will hear:

  • Innovative strategies in healthcare real estate to turn underutilized office space into revenue, similar to Airbnb's model
  • Optimizing healthcare practice efficiency with proactive patient acquisition and niche market focus
  • Flexible, high-profit models for aesthetic healthcare, including shared spaces for injectors to reduce overhead
  • Some benefits of shared healthcare spaces and cloud med spas, emphasizing long-term rentals and collaborative communities
  • The importance of effective networking and building strong leadership communities in the healthcare industry
  • Entrepreneurial success in healthcare through innovative software partnerships and strategic business operations
  • Developing sustainable healthcare business models and maximizing profitability through efficiency and high-value systems

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Episode Transcript

0:00:01 - Mark Henderson Leary

So we are live. How are you? How long has it been since we spoke Two months ago, three months ago? 

0:00:07 - Shannon Seeberan

It feels like a little bit, but I have a very poor concept of time nowadays, so it could have been two weeks ago or two months. 

0:00:16 - Mark Henderson Leary

Yeah, I'm totally in the same boat and yeah, I could have. I mean, I definitely. When I run into people after COVID and like has it been a year since we spoke no, it was four years I was like, oh my gosh, where did the time go Exactly? So catch me up. What's going on in your world? 

0:00:33 - Shannon Seeberan

over the last couple of months. So you know, we have just been growing very quickly and so as a company and you know, lots of things going on personally too. It's it's may mayhem. So I think everyone feels the pain this time of year. Um, with summer nearing, and if you've got kids at home, you're about to lose your mind. Um, so a lot of things going on at once. 

0:00:55 - Mark Henderson Leary

Yes, it's the thank goodness. School's over and summer's here. It turns into oh my God, when is summer going to end? We need school back. 

0:01:03 - Shannon Seeberan

Exactly, exactly. 

0:01:04 - Mark Henderson Leary

And I'm in Houston. So it's um, the summer is here. My son, my six-year-old, said dad is I mean, he's six years old. It's like is it summer or is it still spring? And I'm like I hate to say it, man, but it's still spring and it's good. It's really hot and really humid and really 30 minutes of a pickup soccer game Saturday morning. And he was like I'm at 25 minutes like that, I'm out, I am absolutely done with this. This is crazy. Why would you do this on purpose? 

0:01:31 - Shannon Seeberan

So we're in for it. 

0:01:33 - Mark Henderson Leary

And then it was like thunderstorms last night, torrential rain and power outages and things like that. But great, that's the summer. So, in the business catch me. So you say you're growing. That's great, that's great news. What's driving growth? 

0:01:45 - Shannon Seeberan

So in the business. So you say you're growing. That's great, that's great news. What's driving growth? So just more awareness of who we are and what we're offering. I think it's. Finally, you know, the ripple effect of what we're bringing to the table for our clients is finally getting out there with potential clients. Through being able to tell our story via podcasts and things like this has been very helpful and easy for our potential clients to sort of comprehend the opportunity. 

0:02:14 - Mark Henderson Leary

So let's go there, tell us for the listener, because I know generally what you do. 

So get the overview of the concepts and I think for the listener I don't know who's listening I would love to consume that. But really from the perspective for the listener like not every like, nah, I don't know who's listening I would love to consume that. But I really from the perspective of the model, I mean kind of peeking behind this, the scene of, like how we're going to market, how the stuff is landing, you know what is really thinking, of the perspective of how to get this story, this type of messaging out there. So just kind of give us the overview. 

0:02:41 - Shannon Seeberan

So my brief elevator overview is really saying we're the Airbnb for healthcare, wellness, and so I will go into in detail as far as what that means for a potential client, how it's implemented and how we collaborate with our clients. But we are sort of bringing something to the table for our clients, who range from private practice physicians, dentists, orthodontists, med, spa owners, entrepreneurs, anybody with excessive space, underutilized space who want to leverage that in a way to generate additional revenue. 

0:03:18 - Mark Henderson Leary

so it's like that apartment over your garage yeah, listed on airbnb and start making more money short-term rental the short-term rental model we got to get, I got, I got an empty room is killing me. We got to do something with that exactly, exactly how? I guess how big, how big a demand a problem is. That? That's what I said. How big a problem like how many, how many offices out there like have hemorrhaging wasted space? 

0:03:41 - Shannon Seeberan

it's pretty big, as you can imagine, especially post pandemic, with commercial real estate really struggling and people really trying to get everyone back into the office. Concierge medicine is dialed up, so a lot of you know physicians are going to homes and I think even pre pandemic a lot of our clients got they spot into real estate, into a footprint that was excessive of where they currently were with the expectation that patient growth would be at 2x, 3x in a couple years and they never actually got there. So they're in a footprint of real estate of office space, of exam rooms that they just don't need and haven't used and so they have this asset that already exists and their question is how do I leverage that for additional revenue? 

0:04:33 - Mark Henderson Leary

Are they already thinking this when you talk to them, or are you putting this in their ear for the first time? 

0:04:40 - Shannon Seeberan

They have thought of. They have a lot of them have thought about it. They've thought about renting to someone in either within their specialty or outside of their specialty. So if it's a dentist, they're thinking of renting to a periodontist or an orthodontist. If it's a physician, a pediatrician, maybe they're thinking of renting to you know someone, even within their specialty. So they're thinking about that. They don't know how to go about it and do it. 

0:05:08 - Mark Henderson Leary

Okay, and it sounds like they're thinking of this possibly in terms of long-term contracts, sublet, sharing the stuff out, and you're saying, hey, you know, you don't actually have to make that kind of commitment. 

0:05:19 - Shannon Seeberan

Right, exactly, and instead of thinking of a one-to-one ratio of utilization of space, I've got two rooms. Can I find two people to rent them? What we bring to the table with our software is think of utilization from not just one person being in the space, because what we have learned is that you could have a multitude, a diverse array of utilization of that small amount of space. Think of having 30 people renting those two rooms, not just two. So now you're diversifying your risk. Instead of relying on one person to be in that room all the time, you could potentially have multiple people. 

0:05:54 - Mark Henderson Leary

Does this feel, because, I mean, there's a lot of these models out there and I love every one of them. It doesn't seem crowded. From my perspective, it seems innovative and exciting. Do you feel like this is maturing and people are like this sounds great, sign me up. Or does it still feel like super early and that you're having to educate people? This is totally, this is a legit way, or is it like some days are one or the other? 

0:06:18 - Shannon Seeberan

I would have to say, and of no insult to anyone else, there's a specific subset of clients that are much more business inclined than others. So I would have to say a lot of my dentists, orthodontists clients are all already very business intuitive and so they get it right away. And they're also clients who tend to have a multitude of locations and they're leveraging a lot of locations, and so they tend to have more access and space as well to lease out. 

0:06:53 - Mark Henderson Leary

And they're very, I think. I don't know what optometry fits in, probably not what you're doing exactly, but maybe they're very in that industry. They understand like revenue per square foot and things like that. 

0:07:03 - Shannon Seeberan

And so they've already got a measurable. That's like oh my God, we are our revenue per square foot, and things like that, and so they've already got a measurable. 

0:07:07 - Mark Henderson Leary

that's like oh my God, we are. Revenue per square foot is bad here and you can speak directly or directly to solving that problem. 

0:07:12 - Shannon Seeberan

Yes, exactly and it's. We have a pro forma we can take our clients through that shows how much space they have. They have full control, how many days of the week, how many hours of the day they can take it off availability. So it's always in their control and we can quickly show them what's the revenue potential. What's the cap on this opportunity? Is it 20 people in the space? Is it $5,000 in rental revenue a month? Is it $15,000 of potential rental revenue a month? Are we subsidizing some overhead costs that you currently have in your practice or are we just looking at this as an additional revenue stream? 

0:07:48 - Mark Henderson Leary

So I love the best ones, people who get right to this, and I think dental is a great example, because they have understood retail and cash value and marketing and direct consumer connection way ahead of so many other aspects of healthcare. Who's the worst? Who's absolutely just the worst. 

0:08:11 - Shannon Seeberan

Well, I think it's challenging for everyone. What we're trying to do is come up with a solution here that fits for almost anyone who has their largest space as their biggest investment, as their biggest asset, and so, at the end of the day, what we find and what we've realized is we're not just a solution for our clients who already have the space, who already have the rooms. We're also a solution for their real estate agents who are struggling with clients who are trying to get out of a lease, renegotiate a lease, trying to get clients to get more space and grow their practice. Our locations tend to thrive and give people the opportunity to expand locations, to have more than one location, to scale their business, to grow their business in a much more risk adverse way, and so what's been fascinating about this whole process is how many people in the healthcare, medical space could benefit from a smarter way of running their business, including the vendors in the space as well, and the and you know the people on the, the retail net, the sales side of it. 

0:09:22 - Mark Henderson Leary

So I mean I hear the kind of the value add of you have, add some elasticity. You can de-risk a deal. You're trying to get the lease signed and the owner is not confident they can fill the rooms and you're like, look, don't worry about that, we can de-risk that. But I'm still curious, on the worst, who's not a fit? I'm thinking, is it a generation? Is it like the older ones? I mean, again, I don't want to be ageist, but there's a mindset associated with we can't grow. You're either a hospital or you're a one-doc shop. What are the contraindicators for like this isn't going to be a good conversation. 

0:10:00 - Shannon Seeberan

So a contraindicator, I don't think is a specific demographic or type of person, it's a mindset. It's people who think if they make an investment or if they buy into something, it'll just happen for them overnight. That doesn't the get rich overnight doesn't work for anything, right? Otherwise we'd all be millionaires, right? Every good opportunity takes a little bit of effort, especially in the beginning, to make sure you launch it and it does well. And so for the people who are looking for the quick fix but don't want to put in the effort to implement the opportunity, this is not for them. 

There's a small subset that's still looking for that. 

0:10:39 - Mark Henderson Leary

Can I write a? 

0:10:40 - Shannon Seeberan

check to make it happen. 

0:10:42 - Mark Henderson Leary

Yeah, I guess I think of, and a lot of this is sort of judgmental on my part. I really didn't, I've never lived this life. But the judgment from the outside is that the old mindset is you hang a shingle in a medical professional building and you walk down the hall and make sure you know the primary care down the hall knows you're, you know a sports medicine person, get credentialed, and you know the phone starts ringing and that starts ringing and that's the whole business. And from there you complain about the person at the front desk until you retire and so that's the whole. There's no business like. This is a machine and you get a fee for many aspects of it, including marketing, including culture, including your target market and your product and service offerings and the things that go with that. 

And is there somebody in the practice? And so this is do you have to have somebody in the practice who's non-clinical minded? I mean a business operator, a non-doctor, non-physician founder who's sort of thinking? You know, I'm looking at operations here and I'm looking at everything non-clinical I mean. And a clinical has two definitions in terms of one is outcomes, one is sort of like nurse and engagement and that kind of thing, and I'm just saying, like just really the business of the practice. Do you have to have somebody whose mind is there, or is it? 

0:11:55 - Shannon Seeberan

just it definitely helps and you and I both know when practices have an employee or an office manager that's invested in the success or the flow and efficiency of a practice, it does a lot better right, how do you get your employees invested in your outcome? And so, yes, it does help. If it's not the physician or dentist themselves, do they have someone in the practice that can help oversee the success of this? That's extremely helpful. So I would say that definitely helps this asset add value to the practice. But just you know, obviously, getting back to the whole, if you build it they will come. That mentality of I'm a doctor, now I just got to practice, where are my patients? Right, and that mentality we still see that with this as well. Right, you have to. The people don't just appear out of nowhere. 

0:12:50 - Mark Henderson Leary

Yeah, yeah, yeah, well, certainly not anymore. I think at the time it kind of was that way with the right insurance, especially if you don't have the cred in the primary market, you move to secondary market. I mean, what I'm learning is that if you really want a healthy practice, go to a tertiary market where there's nobody else and, like you know, you have to use you and you don't have to market at all in that case. But if you're in a big market and but today it's really really there's a lot of competition there's really somebody who's saying hey, we're focused on fitness. And if you have an athletic lifestyle and you want to be in a in and you want to be in a clinic situation where we understand your lifestyle, come to us and the person across the street's like I never thought to tell a story, yes, exactly and to sell myself. 

0:13:39 - Shannon Seeberan

And what we love is that our product lets the owner of the practice or the business just get back to autonomy, fully doing what they love, because this overriding burden of overhead costs is now alleviated by a system that is proved to be very efficient and effective when implemented well, and so it's getting. We are truly a partner with helping our clients get it off the ground. Once it gets off the ground, that's where we can say you can describe this as passive income, but passive income doesn't come from the jump. Passive income comes from a lot of hard work and putting effort into something to get it to that level. 

0:14:16 - Mark Henderson Leary

So, from my perspective, a flag on the play and I don't want to sell against you in this regard is is there abundance minded? It's scarcity minded. That's how I would characterize this. The abundance minded is we got an awful lot of value to give here and we can do more and we can build the practice around healing people and creating a great culture where everybody's enthusiastic and we um, we want to give and just drive around, drive the value and feel privileged for what we do, and that's where we can make profit, we can expand, we can tell a story and we're just never going to run out of that. The scarcity mind. It's getting worse every day and reimbursements are terrible. Everybody wants more money, everybody's more entitled and the only way out of this is by paying less for Q-tips and paying my lab text less and if and I can sell out my capacity. That's the scarcity mindset. Do you encounter those mindsets and and how do they work with you know? 

0:15:15 - Shannon Seeberan

yeah, well, typically, if someone's pursuing or has gone down the road of connecting with us and looking at this option, they are trying to pivot because they realize the hamster wheel they're on is not working right. Like you mentioned, the insurance margins are not getting better, the cost of having a staff is not lowering, the cost of your lease or your mortgage is getting higher. And the healthcare industry? It's so fascinating, as there's so much technology at our fingertips to make it more efficient. But we are a litigious country and so there's a hindrance to the advancement of efficiencies, of how this marketplace works and how practices are run, and so there are very limited ways to diversify how you run your business and how you can tap into that. 

This, to me, is we didn't invent shared space. Shared space has been around for a long time. We figured out a way to apply it to healthcare and wellness spaces, and the one thing we haven't touched on yet is who is that renter? So who is going to be in your space? And we've tapped into who that is, and that robust marketplace so who the renter is is an ongoing, growing marketplace that's just booming, and that's why this works so well for our clients. 

0:16:31 - Mark Henderson Leary

So I want to dig into that in specific, but I want to go back to this in the mindset is and this is a very judgmental question, so I'll have to unpack that and that is that to me. 

I guess I'll go right to the judgment. To me, the archetype, the very best is somebody who's running a great practice already. It's healthy, it's running great, and they're like you know what. We got some bandwidth to think this through, we got the right leadership team and we think the very best. Next, best use of our time is to optimize the use of the square footage. That's the ideal, as opposed to where somebody is like, look, we've tried everything else, we suck at this and I got too much dang space and I'm in a lease that I hate. And you know, can you bail me out of this bad situation? That's scary to me. I don't want people in that spot. So that's the judgment I bring to this table. How do you react to that? 

0:17:26 - Shannon Seeberan

Well, we would rather have the optimist, obviously, use the light at the end of the tunnel, but we have had clients that have come to us, you know, from a really bad place and being able to turn things around for them is very satisfying. 

But what we, you know, this is truly a partnership. We are not, you mentioned before, tangible, real things In a world where customer service, client service, is remote, virtual, a chatbot. What we value in our company is the ongoing investment that our clients are successful with the software and that they do well, and so I think they understand that from our initial conversations. This is not hey, we think the software is great, here you go, good luck. We really want to. We believe in it and we believe in the success of it and what it's going to bring to the table for them, and so we're a true partner in that entire process. So that mindset, you know it doesn't scare me, it doesn't, you know, we've dealt with it before and I think, the confidence of what is standing behind our product, really, you know you know, founding physician, and you're just frustrated and you're like the best way I can grow this business is by selling on my access capacity. 

0:18:50 - Mark Henderson Leary

I mean that sucks Like. I mean, I've just call me, let's talk this through and maybe maybe your segment it can't be fixed, maybe help for whatever reason, but I just that's far less common. 

0:19:00 - Shannon Seeberan

And another smart way to look at it and a lot of dentists come to us this way is I want to increase my cash business, which is my cosmetic business, and orthodontists come to us. This is the same footprint. So when we start talking about who the renters are, they are bringing a potential patient client into the footprint. That could also be a potential client patient for that physician or that practice owner. 

0:19:26 - Mark Henderson Leary

That sounds like a perfect pivot. Let's talk about who these renters are and how you pair them and also kind of want to kind of tease out you talk about this partner and it's software. So it's sort of disentangle that, because I don't think of software as a partner. So kind of walk me through the specifics of like an ideal, especially around aesthetics, right. So that's the core of this, right. 

0:19:52 - Shannon Seeberan

It's the core. So remind me to get back to that partner and how I can articulate what this platform is in comparison to something relevant. Everyone can understand. But the renter is the aesthetic injector. So when we started out as a company five years ago we created, we saw a huge lag in the marketplace for the entrepreneurial aesthetic injector. The aesthetic injector mirrored the hair care industry, which means they control the patient client relationship right. So when your hairdresser moves across town, you drive an extra 30 minutes every six, eight weeks to get your hair done. Your relationship is tied with them. It is not dissimilar in the aesthetic injector marketplace. It's the same relationship. And so what we realized? 

One of the biggest issues of employers of aesthetic injectors was a high employee turnover. They couldn't retain their injectors. They would move from place to place. The margins they would pay their injectors would be minimal to the procedure cost. But honestly, as a business owner or a med spa owner, your overhead was huge. So you had to control your employee salaries because you were taking on a lot of debt to invest in this new space, all the devices, the product, the patient marketing. You had a huge overhead. And so, at the end of the day, how do I fix this problem, this revolving door of employees? Because every time an employee left, the patients went with them, which meant revenue going out the door. And then I start over and I hire a new employee and hopefully they'll stick around for six months to a year. So we saw this issue of injectors wanting to be entrepreneurs, wanting to work for themselves, but they didn't want the entry level cost of half a million million dollars to open their own business and get access to all the tools they needed to be an independent injector. So we created a shared space. In this shared space, aesthetic Injectors. We had multiple exam rooms and the space is still there in Boston. 

Aesthetic injectors would come purchase the injectable product they needed which means, for people who don't know the aesthetic space typically a Botox, neurotoxin-like product and fillers. They purchased those prescription products they needed to administer procedures. They would rent devices that they could use on their patients hair removal, microneedling, body sculpting and they would just pay us for the time they were in the space, for the hour and for renting the device, and their margins were big. They were taking them two $300 an hour and they had zero overhead. They weren't paying a lease, they didn't buy the device. They weren't buying tons of product. All they had to do was manage their clients. They controlled their transactions. We gave them full leverage and autonomy. 

And, at the end of the day, what we were trying to tell the employees of all these injectors was you can transition too. This is a win for everyone. These injectors was you can transition to. This is a win for everyone. Instead of having three aesthetic injectors, have 30 renting from you right, and rid yourself of all of this overhead and employee management, which seems to be the biggest epidemic in this space. And so what we realized as a company how a faster way to scale is to use this software platform we built to manage our two brick and mortar locations and help others utilize their space in the same way. 

Because we realized there's so much space out there that's available, especially in the healthcare space and the wellness space. There's space available, so let's leverage that space. Let's give our clients who buy the software access to the product, so that the people renting their space now can get the product they need to administer procedures and everyone's happy, right, everyone wins. And so that's really taken off. And so when we talked about the software being relevant and for our potential clients to understand what is the software, we'll think of it like OpenTable for restaurants. 

What OpenTable does? It doesn't rebrand the restaurant, the restaurant's not called OpenTable. But what OpenTable does is it's a platform that helps the efficiency of bookings at a restaurant right, so that restaurant is maximizing how many tables they're turning over between the hours of six and 10. They want to make sure they're seating as many people as possible for dinner and OpenTable helps make that. So think of it, think of the Cloud MedSpa platform. The same way. 

If you, as the owner of the space, have Tuesday, wednesday, friday available for rooms at your location, we will take those maximum hours and plug it into the system and figure out how many possible renters could you have. If you have, you know, 30 available hours a month to rent, what does that mean revenue wise for you? How many people could be in here? And it helps the scheduling. So you are not managing the scheduling of people in your space. It manages the inventory of how people are accessing product, because the stickiness of cloud med spas is the access to competitive product pricing the renters in your space. The biggest margin on their profit is the cost of product. So if they can get the product at a great rate. That's just a better margin for them, the product being the injectable. 

0:25:07 - Mark Henderson Leary

And so where is that sourced Through? 

0:25:09 - Shannon Seeberan


0:25:10 - Mark Henderson Leary

Okay, through the software Yep. John Greenewald, so you equipment and and consumables are all sourced through you. 

0:25:16 - Shannon Seeberan

We can help barter those opportunities. Equipment is a little different. The majority of our clients are just injectable, are just purchasing injectable product through us. The equipment is sort of another aspect that you can build up and gain access to as well. Our brick and mortar locations. We have equipment there, but it's a little unique and different. 

0:25:37 - Mark Henderson Leary

So what's the remedy for the patient loyalty? I'm assuming you get these people coming in and it's kind of a reverse model almost like, because you're the restaurant is getting the customer in the door, but you're getting in the provider in the door who then brings a customer in who then hopefully becomes a cross-pollinating customer. Is that part of the value? 

0:25:57 - Shannon Seeberan

yeah, so we're bringing the renter in. Obviously we can help. We help bring the renter in. Um, it is the responsibility of the owner of the location to manage that prospect and onboard that prospect. We help generate the traffic to get those prospects interested in renting. And then, once that person is there, I mean it depends on the synergy of the owner, right, it might be someone who is completely it might be a podiatrist, so they might be like I don't care who, you know the foot traffic to where it has nothing to do with my business. I'm just trying to make some additional revenue. But it could be someone who has an overlap as far as an aesthetic client, right, there's only so many lines you can smooth out on your face if your teeth are crooked. 

So, that's why this works. You know works for the orthodontist or dentist. It's additional potential clients for them. Their clients could be potential clients for the renters. It's the same aesthetic client. 

0:26:57 - Mark Henderson Leary

Okay, yeah. So I think it changes the model from the early. Model is well, this has to be a creative, this has to fit in our portfolio. We need to hire somebody. We got to keep them. If we don't keep them, the model falls apart. 

And now we're saying, well, that's all fine, but let's just start with rental. And if we can just rent the space out with no accretion, there's no additive value into the portfolio, that might be a win net-net just right there. That might be a win net net just right there. And then a second order of value is if we do this right, we actually get the benefit of the first one. 

Because I guess the theory is if the economics are built right from the beginning, then you don't have that same kind of turnover. If you get a good renter who likes you, they're paid well enough, you don't have to think about them. You're getting rent and they're making a ton of money. It's efficient from the get go. You don't have to think about them. You're getting rent and they're making a ton of money. It's efficient from the get-go. They don't have an incentive to say like, hey, I'm out, I'm running across town now because hopefully they chose a good location and maybe this puts the interview process in the partnership saying hey, let's try to get a renter who lives in the neighborhood and so they don't have an urge to move their office across the city later after we get a good relationship built. 

0:28:09 - Shannon Seeberan

Well, even if they do and you bring up a good point even if they do, now they can expand their client reach so they can continue to service clients at your location. But now if another location opened 30 miles away and they have a couple friends who live in a suburb of Houston and there's a location in that suburb, they can go there two days a month and treat those clients where they exist. So now they can be a multi-location practitioner without the overhead Right and so alleviating that risk, reducing that risk. Everyone's happy. It's a transparent opportunity. You, if you're an aesthetic injector and your six-year-old son is like dad, let's get out of this heat for July, you can go to the lake, you know for a month. 

You are not paying a lease or rent, right? You can take a break for a month as an aesthetic injector at a cloud med spa location. You're not carrying that overhead. And the owner of the location is like I don't care if you're here for the month of July, cause I have 20 other renters here, right the month of July, because I have 20 other renters here, right. 

0:29:09 - Mark Henderson Leary

So you're diverse, everyone's risk is diversified and lowered. Interesting. So it sounds like you know, if you got this right, there's enough of a demand where it's sort of like, well, you know the schedule gets full, we need to plan in advance and if somebody takes a week off and that's just going to create some spaces for other people to do this. But you know, hopefully this is sort of self-leveling and people are understanding how to manage the flow and create enough of a backlog. 

0:29:34 - Shannon Seeberan

Yeah, and you know, at the end of the day, it's the responsibility of the renter for their own success, right? You're not generating client traffic for them. They are now in charge of their own success, their own client growth. You're providing them with every other tool they need to have a business. 

0:30:01 - Mark Henderson Leary

These renters, you know, and I like the comparison to the hair salon business which I have only recently been sort of exposed to how insane it is. 

It is a very strange independent community. From my limited exposure to it, I had no idea there were so many, just scattered in nooks and crannies all throughout the city. They're like millions. I swear there are more stylists out there than people who need styling. I don't understand it at all. But I kind of guess that there's not a lot of private equity roll-up hair salon things going Like there's not. 

Like I'm an independent hair salon because I didn't want to go institutional, like I can't do those big systems of hair, I can't do that. What even is that? That's not a thing. So like you have to go out and be an independent and you stay an independent or you go to like a chain. I suppose that's the closest thing. But in health care there's a lot of choices there. Like you talk about you could build a practice, you could build, you know, a regional thing. What's the life cycle of these renters? What percentage of them are sort of like lifers in the transient space, as opposed to like no, I'm doing this'm doing this for the six months and then I'm going to. You know, get alone and get this thing going. 

0:31:10 - Shannon Seeberan

Um, I would say a lot of them are lifers, I would and then 10% of them end up opening their own cloud med spa location. Okay, and so they become an extension and one of our clients. Um, and they realize I can do this, leverage this. I can get my own space, two rooms, on the other side of town, and I can start renting it out when I'm not there, which covers all of my overhead. And now I'm a practicing injector with zero overhead and risk, right, because I'm utilizing my space to its maximum capacity. And so that's it's just again about. 

There's a huge demand for this space. There's a huge demand for networking in this space too. So, at the end of the day, there's a lot of hairdressers out there. The majority of them prefer to be in a work in a group setting. That's why they rent chairs, right. Very few people want to go and work in a four room uh, four walled room by themselves all day. They're social people, they're just, you know. And so people, what we've realized, even in the aesthetic space from a learning education, from an, you know, learn by osmosis standpoint people want to work amongst other peers, but in a non-competitive, healthy environment, and so our spaces sort of become hubs for that as well. 

0:32:28 - Mark Henderson Leary

So is that how you say your spaces? 

0:32:30 - Shannon Seeberan

And if, the cloud med spa clients. 

0:32:32 - Mark Henderson Leary

yeah, so is there a different type of someone like I got one room and that's it? Other people like no, I got six rooms and it's going to be a little mini community in here. 

0:32:42 - Shannon Seeberan

Yeah, the majority of our clients have two to four rooms available of our clients have two to four rooms available and so and a lot of our clients, if they are practicing and using their space, are allocating certain days of the week. So orthodontists, who tend to practice two, three days a week at multiple locations, they will allocate the days they are not seeing patients for the cloud med spa opportunity. For some of our practices they just allow the space to be used in their private rooms when they're also practicing. But what we encourage is maybe there's one day a month, a Saturday a month, where all the practitioners, the renters, come in and they do education and training and we get reps in the door to support that education and training. So we encourage that aspect of this opportunity to also exist within the comfort of the client who owns the space. But that generates more opportunity, more interested renters for the space. So it builds a community which everyone is seeking these days. What is the community inside the opportunity? 

0:33:50 - Mark Henderson Leary

Who is your target buyer? Typically, probably a lot of different ones, but is it that founding physician? Is that non-clinical administrator? 

0:33:59 - Shannon Seeberan

It is so ideal and typical are two different things. 

0:34:05 - Mark Henderson Leary

No, actually that's great. Let's talk about both. 

0:34:06 - Shannon Seeberan

Well, typical would be that physician or dentist who over leveraged this space an opportunity 10 years ago when they signed the lease. 

0:34:18 - Mark Henderson Leary

Freaking out like this sucks. 

0:34:19 - Shannon Seeberan

And they're like why did I sign 3000 square feet? I needed 15. And they're like I'm sick of trying to fill this or my overhead going up. That's more typical. Ideal is someone who has that same problem and, like you mentioned earlier, also wants to allocate the time, someone in their office to really launch this opportunity and work with us personally and we can really get it off the ground. So that's the ideal candidate who understands all the tools that need to be in place for this to be a successful location. 

0:34:55 - Mark Henderson Leary

How are these people finding you? Are you finding them? Where are these people sitting? And, yeah, what's the how do the conversations come about? 

0:35:03 - Shannon Seeberan

As far as potential clients of the software, yeah, just so, through a lot of podcasts like this, through a lot of our vendor and relationships. So obviously I mentioned one of the stickiness, the sticky factors of our opportunities the access to prescription product, access to the fillers and the neurotoxins they need to treat their clients. We have corporate relationships with all of our vendors. They also, you know, help communicate the opportunity to their reps in their marketplace. We get a lot of referrals that way. We have relationships with real estate companies in the healthcare and wellness space specifically, who have seen this as a helpful bandaid and opportunity to repair client relationships that are, you know, struggling with their real estate as well. So a lot of partnership conversations and networking. 

0:36:02 - Mark Henderson Leary

Okay, yeah, so you say networking where? What network is this? What is networking in this space? Because what I'm trying to figure out is the busy founding physician equivalent is usually not available. There's not a lot of it. It's like, hey, let's go hang out. Like no, we're not hanging out anywhere, Like the practice needs me every second, If it's not that I've got a family who's really angry that I'm not home sooner. And so it's like where are they hanging out and how are you encountering them in terms of, yeah, just that availability. 

0:36:32 - Shannon Seeberan

Yeah, I think we haven't tapped into all the opportunities to tap into our potential clients yet. Right, We've been selling this for a little over a year and we realized the sky's sort of the limit as far as we haven't reached 2% of our potential clients yet, and so there's a lot of work to be done to acquire more clients and get the build the awareness and get that out there. Um, going through the vendor aspect is very helpful because, again, this is a solution for everyone. The more successful your client is, whether it's the physician or dentist, and the more solutions you bring to the table for them, the better your business is too as a rep or a vendor, and so everyone wants to bring solutions to the table for the client. That's frustrated. 

0:37:17 - Mark Henderson Leary

Yeah, and a lot of-. Well, what you said I think the light bulb went on for me that it's the easiest is to have additional conversations with already committed industry touchpoints. You already have to have these conversations, already committed industry touch points, like you already have to have these conversations. 

They're already happening. They're permission to play, type things, and so that's where these conversations can be had. And this is all to be instructive, for anywhere in the ecosystem you can't add a lot of overhead to a healthcare business. For change it has to be very low friction and I think once you're in, then you can do some massive transformation. And I think most healthcare businesses need and want massive transformation. But you can't do it in a drive-by. You have to have a conversation with somebody who's already doing something. They're hanging on to the back of the wagon. We just got to manage with these existing relationships and they're stepwise going through their day, open to things, and there sometimes can be massive transformations. 

But I mean, that's just, if nothing else, for me and other people who are listening who would have conversations in adjacent opportunities. If you're looking for referrals, you're looking for other things. You know, I think, that overall healthcare ecosystem has so much power to give to itself. There's the value chain of like software and staffing and you know adjacent healthcare practices. We all, just like we got to share information and connect with each other, and so you know, I think that's the good and the bad. It's a little bit of insular in it. You know a lot of the healthcare folks hang out and don't get to hang out enough with the piping, insulation plumbing businesses who were like, hey, why are you doing it that way? 

We got a way, better way to do it. 

0:39:03 - Shannon Seeberan

It can be applied across industry a hundred percent. Yeah, there's a smarter way of doing business. Healthcare is a business and unfortunately, a lot of practice owners, you know, haven't had the exposure to how to implement different you know unique ways of pivoting in their space that is outside the care of their patient, and so it's unfortunate, but hopefully someone is listening out there, that's part of your team and could see implementing this opportunity as well. 

0:39:36 - Mark Henderson Leary

Yeah, and all the things like that. I mean there's a lot of innovation. I mean, yeah, this is a really important point. I mean managing the cost of real estate and such capital-intensive real estate, and long-term contracts. 

that's a major pain point Staffing across all levels, Like, how can we optimize for this and some of the people I've interviewed on the podcast have definitely been same kind of idea oh, we need to put a hygienist in here. Let's get a hygienist in here. With the same kind of thing, how can we temporary staff and really get you back meaningful money in a way that's lower overhead? And, like you said, the mindset has to be there that we've got to think of this as a business in many ways. My caution, of course, is to reemphasize the point is I don't want these very powerful secondary opportunities to take the place of your primary, which is run a great business with high value. Hire great people who love what you do, lead the organization with strength. Run a great business with high value. Hire great people who love what you do, lead the organization with strength, build a great culture and then fit these in there. And you can do that on the back of this of great vision and great leadership, for sure. 

0:40:40 - Shannon Seeberan

Yeah, definitely. Opportunity takes time investment from just changing how you allocate your time throughout your day of managing your practice to forward thinking and setting that time aside to think about what is the future of my practice. Who's invested in this long-term? And, yeah, bringing that, having the right team to change. 

0:41:01 - Mark Henderson Leary

Yeah, I would summarize exactly that and I would say that if you're listening to this and you're thinking, man, I sure love to get those two rooms full, I would say, great, man, I sure love to get those two rooms full. I would say, great, who's going to do that? Who's going to handle that? You and your 70th hour of the week or 110th hour of the week? That's a terrible idea. We need to build a leadership team. We need to get your structure and this is a great idea to do this and stuff like this. Let's get somebody on the leadership team who can help you run the business and if you're stuck with that, obviously there's a million other episodes of this show that can help you work through that or, of course, reach out. I want to get you unstuck there. I want to think back to did we cover enough of the partnership aspect or do we want to talk about the software partnership relationship? 

0:41:45 - Shannon Seeberan

I think so Just knowing this is a consumable opportunity. We have broken it down, you know, in a way where we onboard our clients, so integrating it into you know how they're changing or whether there's you know a front office person allocating an hour a day to support this. We do it in a very consumable way. It is not pivoting the way you run your existing practice. It's an addition, it's an additive, and so we really support you with that whole process and getting this going and just knowing that you know it's. It's a true partnership from that aspect of things, and you're dealing with real people, not chat bots. 

0:42:23 - Mark Henderson Leary

Yeah, yeah, for sure. Oh, my gosh, well cool. So we've covered a lot of the last 42 and a half minutes or so. The time flew by. What did we miss? 

0:42:34 - Shannon Seeberan

I think you know that's really it. I mean, the next step is obviously just reaching out to have the conversation. It conversations and whether or not this is a fit for your practice or your business is very they're very specific to who you are and what your business is. There's not one general fit for everyone, and so just let's have that you know conversation that won't be a waste of your time. Whether or not you choose to go down this path with us is your prerogative, but I think it's really you know. Be inquisitive about what your options are as a potential client really figure out what's out there for you options are. 

0:43:11 - Mark Henderson Leary

as a potential client, really figure out what's out there for you. 

0:43:18 - Shannon Seeberan

Sounds great. What is your passionate plea for entrepreneurs these days? Wow, I think you know you mentioned this mindset right and people really being understanding that you know they're underestimating their potential right and back in the day, an entrepreneur would be a very small subset of the population. It took a lot of risk to be an entrepreneur, both financially and everything emotionally. In this day and age, the entrepreneur entry level is should and isn't. Shouldn't be risk heavy. Right, there's a low cost of entry. The opportunities, the tools, the resources are there. Being an entrepreneur is a true mindset and it's about having the confidence and the ability to take advantage of controlling your outcome and your schedule and your profitability and just taking life by the horns. And so entrepreneurship really sort of the bar, for you know the intimidation of the opportunity I think is really much more feasible. 

0:44:17 - Mark Henderson Leary

Yeah, and I think I love that. And I think one of the underused muscles in healthcare is you're going to take the bull by the horns and get what you want from this business. What do you want in this business? And it really takes some time with that question and I think I know my experience. It opens up many more questions. What is possible? What are we trying to do here? Why am I even doing this? 

What do I love about this business 10 years from now and I think that's a great, I love bringing that into this 10 years from now, regardless of the outcome of these choices you're making now, what are you going to feel best about long term? Are you going to build the practice, build the culture, maximize the opportunity, be forward thinking? You know, really understanding that to fit this in has to fit into the vision. Like, hey, we've nailed it and we just need to save another point on the bottom line Great, we've not nailed it. We need to add more to the ecosystem and we were to think hard about what kind of renters we would have, or no renters or not. Do anything like this, really being true to yourself and I just want to double down on that concept, that muscle for a lot of healthcare providers, the founding healthcare providers, the muscle of choice is very weak, very weak that you can choose who you work with. 

You can choose who these patients are. You can choose how detail-oriented what your standard of excellence is. We are driving value at low cost. We are driving extreme excellence here at whatever cost necessary. 

0:45:53 - Shannon Seeberan

Those are choices you need to need to make and make sure you are really getting that out of the business yeah, and building a model in a business that is sustainable and can weather the ups and downs of the marketplace in turbulent times. What is going to be under your control as an owner of your business, versus saying, oh, the insurance margins are crap, now, oh my, you know, front desk person wants a raise, and what are you going to control? And are you building a sustainable business, that where you can just get back to what you love and why you space Absolutely Well, look, you love and why you space Absolutely Well, look, I appreciate everything you shared. 

0:46:33 - Mark Henderson Leary

We've covered a lot and it's been very thought provoking. How does somebody we'll have, obviously, details in the show notes for you know anything specific and complicated, but just in terms of easy ways to find you and continue the conversation, how does somebody find you? 

0:46:47 - Shannon Seeberan

You can text me a 773-398-1999. Shoot me an email. Shannon at CloudMedSpas, that's plural. You can also find us on our website, CloudMedSpascom. Let's just start a conversation and be inquisitive. 

0:47:05 - Mark Henderson Leary

Sounds great. I'm so grateful for the time and I'm grateful for what you're doing in terms of the entrepreneurial innovation and making a difference. I think we, as a health care community, being business savvy, being efficient, being effective, not wasteful I mean, there's so much waste and what do prices have to be like to be profitable? If you've got two empty rooms, that's terrible. So doing things like this is not just a way to keep more on the bottom line, to take home, it's a way to make sure the business is effective and efficient and you can deliver value. So I'm grateful for all these types of innovations that are out there. Great. 

0:47:41 - Shannon Seeberan

Well, that's our time. 

0:47:43 - Mark Henderson Leary

Thanks so much and if you like this episode, please don't forget to share. Give us some feedback, get this in the hands of anybody else you think this can be useful for. Leave us the feedback, all the feedback you can have, positive and negative. We love every bit of it. Anything you can give us voice feedback in the SpeakPipe show notes, you can just give us a little voice memo and we can respond to that. It all makes such a big difference. 

And, of course, as I always say, when and if you're stuck, if you're feeling like you want to have this, have everybody in the organization crystal clear on your vision and feeling privileged to heal people. And if you want everybody accountable and disciplined and executing and making progress on this vision and you want this entire culture to be super healthy, you love going there, you love the people, you love the patients, the patients love the people and it's all what you love and what you want to have. But you're stuck. You don't know how to get that going. Please don't stay stuck. Please reach out, hit us at practicefreedomcom slash schedule and we'll just take a few minutes to talk about what a first step could look like to make that happen. We'll see you next time on Practice Freedom with me, mark Henderson-Leary. 

0:48:54 - Shannon Seeberan

Well, thank you Shannon. Thanks Mark, appreciate it. That was a nice discourse back and forth. I think it flowed well. 

0:49:05 - Mark Henderson Leary

I hope it translates well with your listeners. Yeah, me too, for sure. I can never predict for sure. 

0:49:08 - Shannon Seeberan

Yeah, me too, for sure. I can never predict for sure, no, no, but I appreciate it. Thank you for scheduling me in your time, and I'm excited for this to come out, and we'll definitely populate it everywhere we are as well. 

0:49:21 - Mark Henderson Leary

For sure, For sure. I just want to make sure how to? What's the official pronunciation of your last name? 

0:49:27 - Shannon Seeberan

C-B-R-A-N, C-B-R, and then like the lady's name Ann C-B-R-A-N, C-B-R, and then like the lady's name Ann. 

0:49:32 - Mark Henderson Leary


0:49:33 - Shannon Seeberan

Mm-hmm, c-b-r-a-n. 

0:49:34 - Mark Henderson Leary

Yeah there we go, thank you. 

0:49:37 - Shannon Seeberan

And what? 

0:49:39 - Mark Henderson Leary

else Anything. I got your bio. I'll use that in sort of the intro. I don't usually go super bio heavy, just a little bit of credential. It's more like this is what we're going to talk about. This is what you should learn from that, yeah. 

0:49:50 - Shannon Seeberan

I mean, I spent, you know, about 10 years consulting in private practices, primarily dermatology practices, before I came over to the side of things and you know, like you're familiar, just working and seeing how inefficient a lot of these practices are run. Nobody makes time and schedules time for growth and vision. Everyone's just trying to get through the day, and so when problems arise or inefficiencies arise, there's no solution in place or opportunity to troubleshoot. So it's definitely a space that needs more efficiencies, more thought provokingoking opportunities, more of a business mindset yeah, absolutely, and that's that's kind of like the double-edged benefit purse. 

0:50:41 - Mark Henderson Leary

It's like the problems are so fixable very very very fixable. Not, it's not hard, not difficult. Not, we're not, not down to the last one percent. It's like we got the last 99 efficiency we can. We can absolutely get you better, but there's sort of like well, no one else is doing it this way, yeah I know it's like we're lacking models, lacking, lacking those role models and examples status quo. 

0:51:07 - Shannon Seeberan

And then it's who gives a shit around here, who wants to change the process. It's not always the owner of the practice. It's someone who actually gives a shit to change and make it better. So how do you get those people invested right and a part of the long-term goal? 

0:51:28 - Mark Henderson Leary


0:51:29 - Shannon Seeberan

I understand. 

0:51:30 - Mark Henderson Leary

And so that's the challenge and that's what we're here to do. So I'm excited. Last couple of things for you, so anybody else that comes to mind that's good in podcast and enthusiasm that I should know or connect with to kind of keep expanding this community. 

0:51:44 - Shannon Seeberan

I mean my God, I mean my founder. My partner is amazing at this stuff too. He speaks to it at a whole different level and just a whole different vision. But I'll have to think on that one for anyone else in in the space Talk to. I mean, we love one of our partners car car real estate real estate. They're strictly healthcare real estate. They only work with dentists, physicians, some vet. 

So they're in that healthcare space, which we know is a completely different niche than another commercial real estate space. They obviously they know a lot the owner of that company speaks really well to. They obviously see all the problems of their clients, but they can only solve so much from a real estate standpoint. So but I'll think on that and get back to you if I can. 

0:52:44 - Mark Henderson Leary

And obviously, of course, what I do is this is a passion project for me to build a community. How I make a living is when people are stuck and they want to implement a system so they can build that leadership team, run a better business. That's super high value and high culture. That lives that you know gives them that great outcome and great outcomes and, of course, better life. If you're ever seeing these people who seem to be struggling, they want to do more. Sending people my way to for conversations I sometimes refer them out but I'm happy to have conversations with anybody is running those founder physicians who are stuck, frustrated and have that abundance in in you know, that belief inside them, and they still have that and are frustrated about any connections definitely yeah, great awesome the meantime. 

I think that's it for today. Thank you, mark, great to speak with you again. Absolutely. Thanks so much for the time, and so you'll get notice from us about when we're promoting this and so you'll get a chance to see it coming. It shouldn't be a surprise and we can kind of cross promote it when we get it out there. 

0:53:44 - Shannon Seeberan

All right, sounds good. 

0:53:46 - Mark Henderson Leary

Right. Thanks so much, Shannon. 

0:53:47 - Shannon Seeberan

Thanks, mark, okay, bye.

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